Using Tube Paints for miniatures

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Tyberius
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Using Tube Paints for miniatures

Post by Tyberius » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:09 am

I use and happily recommend Derivan MiNis for most things however I still use a lot of Artist tube paints, and I found the following on TMP.

CPBelt
14 Dec 2008 1:35 p.m. PST

My blog:
http://ordinarygaming.blogspot.com/

Most of my paint collection is craft paint. Many gamers like the paints as well. So I decided to put my craft paint triads online at my blog above, complete with color samples. (Helps me to visually remember and organize them better than my scratch pads!) Though computers don't always translate paint colors into html code accurately, I have tried out the triads with real paint. So trust me.
If you have any craft paint triads or hybrid triads (craft paint and hobby paint together) let me know.

***
The direct link to his work on craft paint triads can be found here.
http://crcyc.railfan.net/triads/brown-tan.html


Much of the information here will equally apply to other tube paints however Matisse have easily accessible data for me to use.

This topic is a result of an earlier topic where I mentioned using artist tube paints and coverage issues due to different pigments. Here is some information from the Matisse web site and a chart outlining the opacity of each Flow range colour.

Pigments and paint coverage

Opacity ratings:
Although in most cases these two ratings will be the same, there are some pigments in a pure, dry state that may not maintain the same opacity when incorporated into acrylic paint. This may be due to variations in particle size between the pigment and other raw materials in the paint formulation, the intensity of pigments or the pigment loading in the paint system. These can all have an effect on the resulting opacity of the paint.
To help artists identify the opacity and transparency of Matisse Acrylic colours two ratings have been make available.

Pigment opacity rating: This denotes the actual rating that would be given to the pigment particle (and the aggregate for blends) when studied on a macroscopic level or as described by the pigment manufacturer.
Paint rating: this rating describes the resultant opacity of the actual paint.
In addition to this, some colours will be different in shade, tone or even opacity even though they have the same name or generic colour index name (i.e. PY74). This is because this index for pigments is an indication of chemical type and basic shade only. The hue, tone, intensity (and opacity) can vary considerably between individual pigments classified under this index. In addition brands of paint with the same pigment number can vary due also to the use of fillers and other agents and the quality of the pigment used. Matisse use only the finest pigments available and limit fillers, when they have to be used (for rheology, in-can stability, flow control etc) to the bare minimum and do not use fillers to extend the colour, which generally results in dirtier, less intense colours.

LEGEND
A = Pigment Opacity
B = Paint Opacity
T = Transparent
S = Semi-Transparent
O = Opaque

Opaque
COLOUR PIGMENT NUMBERS A B
Alpine Green PG7 PY74 PY83 T O
Antique Blue PB29 PW6 PBk11 PB15.3 O O
Antique Gold (discontinued) PY42 PY74 PBk11 O O
Antique Green PW6 PBk11 PG7 O O
Antique White PW6 PY42 O O
Aqua Green Lt PW6 PG7 O O
Ash Pink PW6 PBr7 O O
Cerulean Blue PB36 O O
Chrom. Green Oxide PG17 O O
Cobalt Blue PB28 O O
Australian Sky Blue PW6 PB29 O O
Ghost Gum PW6 PY42 PBr7 O O
Magenta Light PW6 PR122 O O
Mars Violet PR101 O O
Matisse Orange DPP PO73 O O
Matisse Red Light PR254 O O
Matisse Scarlet DPP PR255 O O
Metallic Bronze mica titanate pigment O O
Metallic Copper mica titanate pigment O O
Metallic Gold mica titanate pigment O O
Metallic Light Gold mica titanate pigment O O
Metallic Silver mica titanate pigment O O
My Pink (discontinued), PW6 PO36 PG17 PR170 PR101 O O
Naples Yellow PY53 O O
Naples Yellow Light PW6 PY42 PY83 O O
Permanent Lt Violet PW6 PV23 O O
Permanent Orange PO36 PY74 S O
Burnt Sienna PBr7 PR101 O O
Mars Black PBk11 S O
Red Oxide PR101 O O
Skin Tone Light PW6 PO36 PR101 O O
Skin Tone Mid PY74 PR101 PY42 PBr7 O O
Terracotta PO36 PR101 O O
Titanium White PW6 O O
Turner’s Yellow (discontinued) PY74 PY42 PR112 PW6 O O
Unbleached Titanium PW6 PY42 PR101 O O
Van Dyke Brown PBr7 S O
Venetian Red PR101 O O
Yellow Oxide PY42 O O

(Personal comment, yellows, orange and red will always be brighter with a white undercoat and I would treat then as if semi tranparent)

Semi Transparent
Aureolin Yellow PY40 S S
Australian Red Violet PV19 T S
Australian Sap Green PY74 PG36 PY83 PR101 T S
Brilliant Alizarin PR122 PR170 T S
Burgundy PR122 PR170 PBk7 T S
Burnt Umber PBr7 S S
Carbon Black PBk7 S S
Cobalt Turquoise PB36 O S
Hookers Green PG7 PY74 PBk7 S S
Matisse Indigo PB60 T S
Matisse Rose Madder PV19 T S
Midnight Blue PB29 PB15.3 PBk11 S S
Napthol Crimson PR170 T S
Naphthol Scarlet PR112 PO36 T S
Payne’s Grey PB29 PBk11 S S
Permanent Green Lt PY3 PG7 T S
Prussian Blue PB27 T S
Raw Sienna PY43 O S
Raw Umber PBr7 S S
Skin Tone Deep PBr7 PR101 PG7 S S
Vermilion PO36 O S
White Pearl PW6+ Mica titanate O S
Yellow Deep PY83 T S
Yellow Mid Azo PY74 T S

(Personal comment. I have had no problems with coverage and regularly use Burnt Umber, Carbon Black, Raw Sienna, Raw Umber and particularly Payne’s Grey, which I always thought had opaque pigments because of their coverage.)

Transparent
Australian Olive Green(trans),PG7 PY83 PR101 PBK7 T T
Australian Sienna PY83 PR101 PY42 S T
Australian Yellow Green PY74 PG7 PY83 T T
Deep Rose Madder PR175 T T
Dioxazine Purple PV23 T T
Magenta PR122 T T
Matisse Emerald PG36 T T
Phthalocynine Blue PB15.3 T T
Phthalocynine Green PG7 T T
Southern Ocean Blue PG7 PB15.3 T T
Ultramarine Blue PB29 S T
Yellow Light Hansa PY3 T T


NOTE
I have removed all the Cadmium yellow, orange and reds which are not safe for children or for those that suck the end of their brush. All the cadmium paints are opaque. You can find the complete chart here.

http://www.matisse.com.au/pages/flowinfo.htm

Using Tube paint
Some pigments are transparent or semi transparent by nature, so for most hobby paints a filler is added to make the paint more opaque. This means the colour isn't true to the pigment so they don't add filler for artist paints.

1. Find out whether the pigment is opaque, transparent or semi transparent.

The the pigment is transparent of semi transparent you will need to undercoat with a white, or another light colour like light grey

If the pigment is opaque then it should cover a black undercoat.

2. Be prepared to thin the paint a little on a palette. That should not be a problem and the 75ml of paint will last longer.

Varying your undercoat
The trick here is to vary your undercoat to white where you want a bright colour or where the pigment is transparent or semi transparent in nature. (Mark Fenlon showed me this)

Satin or matt finish.
I know the Matisse Flow range is a slight satin finish however it I want matt I correct this with a matt varnish. I cannot comment of the finish of Jo Sonya or other brands of tube pant.

Derivan MiNis
In regards to Derivan MiNis, there is a very good write up on this range by Mal Wright on TMP
http://theminiaturespage.com/showcase/976718/
Derivan MiNis have a very matt finish.

Mike Siggins on Derivan MiNis
Scroll down to the section on Pigments
http://www.ludeme.com/minis/warg60.htm
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But they are not ....... chickens
They are ....... Emus

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Re: Using Tube Paints for miniatures

Post by Dropbear » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:46 am

I have been using tube paints for a while now - it works out cheaper and you get more in a tube than a pot (games workshop pot type), as well as the pigments can be stronger... except in yellow... i always have problems with yellow paint in that it is too thin.

hussarbob

Re: Using Tube Paints for miniatures

Post by hussarbob » Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:17 am

I use a lot of tube paints too namely Decoart and Inscribe. Have been trying to locate replacements for my usual GW shades. Still can't find something to match Snakebite Leather tho!

I still use GW reds though, can't find anything to match it's coverage and brightness.

starkadder

Re: Using Tube Paints for miniatures

Post by starkadder » Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:55 am

I use tube paint a fair bit particularly a Chroma type called Atelier absolute matte.

They're on http://www.chromaonline.com

I like the Derivan Minis and have a lot of them. My only criticism is that I get carpal tunnel from having to shake them so much and, no Kardinal, I am not going to get a handy machine.

I get good yellows out of Winsor and Newton Galeria but I add a bit of Evil Empire Tausept Ochre as a stiffener. It does the trick.

The trick with all tube paints is to invest in some flow medium or retarder. They dry out so quickly on the brush.

Cardinal Biggles

Re: Using Tube Paints for miniatures

Post by Cardinal Biggles » Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:55 am

I stand by my Robart paint shaker machine!!!Though those derivans do push its little electric motor a bit...

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Re: Using Tube Paints for miniatures

Post by frostydog » Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:23 am

This is an interesting topic. Have never thought of using tube paints before but with the lack of retailers selling GW and other paint types west of the mountains maybe its worth a try. Pardon my ignorance but what do you mean by
flow medium or retarder
?

Cheers

M
"You defy me! How dare you defy me! Your uppance will come".
Cardinal's award for Purity of Expression and Justifiable Pedantry 2nd class

starkadder

Re: Using Tube Paints for miniatures

Post by starkadder » Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:49 am

All of the stuff below is available from any decent art store. Incidentally, this is an area where human service thumps the Internet to death. I have two great shops that I use, in Wollongong and in Picton. (Might be a trek for DAF but what can you do, eh?) Their advice has helped me incredibly.

Flow Medium is a paint extender that can triple the life of your GW acrylics as long as you use it as an extender and not just a thinner. Basically it helps the paint flow more evenly off your brush. It feels a little soapy at first but works well. It retards the drying time slightly.

Retarder Medium is similar but different in that it is specifically designed to stop the paint drying too quickly.

Matt Varnish is a vexed subject. I have a Winsor and Newton Matt Varnish 250ml bottle that will probably last the rest of my life (not counting doing buildings). It's much more economical than sprays etc.

I've been using inks over the years as well. There are a thousand better options than the Evil Empire (I do wander onto the Dark Side every now and then, though. I like their washes)

By the way, do not assume that I'm a great painter. I'm not fit to clean the brushes of some of the painters I've seen in the Tavern. My painting is dictated by time. I have to paint in fifteen minute bursts (the average time before the wife appears and tells me I have to mow the back forty hecatres witha blunt nail file)

That's why retarder medium is so valuable :)

Cardinal Biggles

Re: Using Tube Paints for miniatures

Post by Cardinal Biggles » Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:54 am

and I am off very soon to see your work..especially the clean brushes

starkadder

Re: Using Tube Paints for miniatures

Post by starkadder » Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:48 pm

I forgot binder medium which actually does what it says and binds paint to a surface. This is incredibly useful when you're using easy-rubbed-off acrylics.

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Re: Using Tube Paints for miniatures

Post by frostydog » Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:05 pm

Thanks starkers, will have to investigate, like the idea of the binder medium. Any brand names you can recommend?

Cheers

M
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starkadder

Re: Using Tube Paints for miniatures

Post by starkadder » Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:06 pm

Chromacryl do a good binder.

I'll make a list when I'm sober.

Shears. Happy New Year.

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Re: Using Tube Paints for miniatures

Post by Tyberius » Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:39 pm

Mediums available in the Derivan MiNi 36ml eye dropper range

DRYING RETARDER
Slows drying time.

SURFACE TENSION BREAKER
Assists the flow of the paint allowing fine detailed work.
Airbrushing: Surface Tension Breaker diluted 1 part with 9 parts water, to make a thinner and then thin the paint to the desired viscosity.

INK MEDIUM
This is ink without pigment. It is used to thin ink without losing the adhesive property of the ink.
It may also be used with Derivan MiNi paint to make any ink you desire.

IRIDESCENT MEDIUM
Iridescent Medium can be mixed in any proportion with Matisse Colours or make a pearl/ metallic effect.
Iridescent Medium mixed with Matisse colours looks great over a black background.

Some Other Matisse Mediums (250ml jars or greater - Note the mediums above are also available in larger jars)

MM4 GEL MEDIUM
Makes great water effects, Vary the layers to show different depths of water.

MARBLING GEL
Marbling Gel may also be used in marbling processes to keep the colours from mixing together whilst at the same time creating colour effects from opaque to transparent.

SPREADER MEDIUM
Create glazes with Matisse paints

WATER BASED CRACKING MEDIUM
Derivan Cracking Medium lets you produce works that have that weathered and old feel.

For other Matisse mediums or more information
http://www.matisse.com.au/pages/mmediums.htm
http://www.matisse.com.au/pages/dmediums.htm
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Re: Using Tube Paints for miniatures

Post by Artsupplies » Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:08 pm

I use Mont Marte acrylic tube paints and its yellow color is nice as compare to ordinary paints and very useful for beginners.

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Re: Using Tube Paints for miniatures

Post by Dropbear » Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:50 pm

pardon me for asking, but have you tried painting miniatures with these paints, and if so, how well do they work?

I do use tube paint, and I am always on the look out for a good yellow.

I had to ask due to a) the threadomancy on the topic, and b) this is your first post here and it comes across as an advertisement for your art supply store.

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Re: Using Tube Paints for miniatures

Post by Artsupplies » Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:15 pm

Hi,
Thanks for asking. I am not a professional painter, but love to try different colors for miniatures, as a beginner, I found good results and want to share my experience with others.

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