Who is Killer Clive ..

To discuss all those Naval and Aviation matters from "Killer" Caldwell to the "Scrap Iron Flotilla".
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Cardinal Biggles

Who is Killer Clive ..

Post by Cardinal Biggles » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:42 pm

and what significance is an Iron flotilla and the said Clive?

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Re: Who is Killer Clive ..

Post by Dropbear » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:03 am

Killer Clive Caldwell is only one of Australia's best known WW2 Pilots: http://www.awm.gov.au/exhibitions/fifty ... ians/6.asp

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Re: Who is Killer Clive ..

Post by starkadder » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:25 am

and of course, Bobby Gibbs, his trusty off-sider who only passed away a couple of years ago.

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Re: Who is Killer Clive ..

Post by Cardinal Biggles » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:32 am

Clive Robertson Caldwell...Spitfire CRC..he hated the "Killer " thing, absolutely hated it..

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Re: Who is Killer Clive ..

Post by frostydog » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:53 am

Yes Clive hated the Killer tag and Bobby Gibbes was a jackeroo from Nyngan sort of goes against the brylcreme boy image of the RAAF.
"You defy me! How dare you defy me! Your uppance will come".
Cardinal's award for Purity of Expression and Justifiable Pedantry 2nd class

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Re: Who is Killer Clive ..

Post by Admin Fella » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:08 pm

He may have not liked it, but this was the name he was popularly known by. He had that name for a reason.

The AWM see no offence in using the name or other historical references to him. We obviously mean no offence in using it either.

I figured you would have already known who he is by the room title.

Of course the Scrap Iron Flotilla is the Australian Destroyer Group that operated in WWII.

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Re: Who is Killer Clive ..

Post by frostydog » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:52 pm

Good old Scrap Iron Flotilla, just as well Pig Iron Bob didnt sell them to the Japanese.
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Re: Who is Killer Clive ..

Post by Admin Fella » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:19 pm

frostydog wrote:Good old Scrap Iron Flotilla, just as well Pig Iron Bob didnt sell them to the Japanese.
They did a bloody great job to. :)

A quick reference for those interested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrap_Iron_Flotilla

http://thomo.coldie.net/naval-matters/t ... n-flotilla

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Re: Who is Killer Clive ..

Post by JasonB » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:13 am

I think Kendo might well be a little mischevious starting this topic......we hardly ever get to pick our nicknames and most of us end up disliking the one we get but in the true Aussie spirit we suck it up and go on.....

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Re: Who is Killer Clive ..

Post by Admin Fella » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:38 am

JasonB wrote:I think Kendo might well be a little mischevious starting this topic......we hardly ever get to pick our nicknames and most of us end up disliking the one we get but in the true Aussie spirit we suck it up and go on.....
Yes i agree.

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Re: Who is Killer Clive ..

Post by Cardinal Biggles » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:23 am

JasonB wrote:I think Kendo might well be a little mischevious starting this topic......we hardly ever get to pick our nicknames and most of us end up disliking the one we get but in the true Aussie spirit we suck it up and go on.....
you think so? actually his nick name is "Killer" Caldwell , "Killer Clive" could just as easily be Clive of India or some psychotic called Clive , or even my uncle Clive around whom some suspisioun hung.. and if it is the Srcap Iron Flotilla then it call it the Scrap Iron Flottila..not everybody here has as stunning a depth of local military lore as you..indeed for those outside of Australia it must be totally meaningless, I thought it might be the Scrap Iron Flotilla but there was a fair bit of ambuiguity, with the abscence of the scrap bit..and who is Kendo?..As for nicknames I would of thought respecting the wishes of a man of the stature of Clive Caldwell would be a matter that outweighed the observations of a suspect pop sociology.

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Re: Who is Killer Clive ..

Post by JasonB » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:32 am

[quote="Conrad Hawkwood..and who is Kendo?..As for nicknames I would of thought respecting the wishes of a man of the stature of Clive Caldwell would be a matter that outweighed the observations of a suspect pop sociology.[/quote]

My point exactly on nicknames Cardinal/Kendo/Conrad (which one this week?).....as for suspect pop sociology....dont give me that about the name....you knew full well who Killer Clive refer to but as per usual you have to turn into some sort of discourse where you try to assert some sort of intellectual superiority over a subject.....you know alot about alot of things but you dont know it all- none of us do.....

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Re: Who is Killer Clive ..

Post by Admin Fella » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:35 am

Thanks for the insight Chris. Indeed the names could be a little more specific to ensure proper correctness and i will look into them.

As to them being known, well there were numerous room names here and indeed some on your own which are really only known to those who have specific subject knowledge.

I know we digress somewhat, but you may have seen i had renamed the WWI room and then took the time to put up a sticky explaining who these people are. it was my intention to do the same with the other specifically named rooms during the course of the weekend.

The aim will be to remember names from our military past and provide a brief synopsis of why they were memorable.

As to "Killer" Caldwell i disagree with your reference to "pop" sociology. This was name given to him by his peers and comrades and hardly some fickle "pop fad". While he may not have liked it, Jason is right with his comment regarding the use of nicknames.

The good side of this is that his name is now fresh again in some peoples minds and introduced for others. A good thing regardless.

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Re: Who is Killer Clive ..

Post by Cardinal Biggles » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:12 am

JasonB wrote:[quote="Conrad Hawkwood..and who is Kendo?..As for nicknames I would of thought respecting the wishes of a man of the stature of Clive Caldwell would be a matter that outweighed the observations of a suspect pop sociology.
My point exactly on nicknames Cardinal/Kendo/Conrad (which one this week?).....as for suspect pop sociology....don't give me that about the name....you knew full well who Killer Clive refer to but as per usual you have to turn into some sort of discourse where you try to assert some sort of intellectual superiority over a subject.....you know alot about alot of things but you dont know it all- none of us do.....[/quote]
gosh who are you?and screen names aren't nick names and of course I had an idea about Clive and the Flotilla but most people who actually don't have a stunning grasp of military history such as I would be totally mystified and do you really think it looks good to have "killer", for whatever a reason on a Wargames forum heading?.. and in your case asserting intellectual superiority , whatever you imagine that to be, isn't an issue unless you make it one..suck it and see where it gets you.. and have I ever met you?..I do look forward to the event as face to face discussion is so much more fun..and on this forum I am Conrad Hawkwood, as my screen details say, or do you have a bit of trouble reading as well, I suggest you respect my wishes about this....only those I actually know call me Kendo and that happens outside the cyber world so mind your business Jasonb

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Re: Who is Killer Clive ..

Post by Cardinal Biggles » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:24 am

Admin Fella wrote:Thanks for the insight Chris. Indeed the names could be a little more specific to ensure proper correctness and i will look into them.

As to them being known, well there were numerous room names here and indeed some on your own which are really only known to those who have specific subject knowledge.

I know we digress somewhat, but you may have seen i had renamed the WWI room and then took the time to put up a sticky explaining who these people are. it was my intention to do the same with the other specifically named rooms during the course of the weekend.

The aim will be to remember names from our military past and provide a brief synopsis of why they were memorable.

As to "Killer" Caldwell i disagree with your reference to "pop" sociology. This was name given to him by his peers and comrades and hardly some fickle "pop fad". While he may not have liked it, Jason is right with his comment regarding the use of nicknames.

The good side of this is that his name is now fresh again in some peoples minds and introduced for others. A good thing regardless.
for some his name never went a way..the last book my father read was the biography of Caldwell, a good read in its way and very sociologically in ts details of the men and their times .My father had a snapshot of Caldwell's spitfire he took with his little box brownie on some airfield they both happened to be at the same time.
I was referring to the idea that it is a typically Australian thing..I think you will find it was the press that called him "Killer". I don't think any of his fellow comrades would have called him killer, indeed I think you find it was only used by people who didn't know him..he was quite embarrassed by. The AWM refers to it as an historical fact much the same way Guy Gibson's dog was called "nigger" though I don't think Gibson ever had any qualms about that though I imagine any Jamaican air crew would....as for names I coined at least I always got their titles correct and it is Conrad Hawkwood here and if you don't want a very long series of very boring posts about it please respect my wishes about it.

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Re: Who is Killer Clive ..

Post by Admin Fella » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:28 am

Ok, i think we have now said enough on this topic.

thanks for the factual title comments i have adjusted the forum name accordingly.

As to the rest, well that is a matter for this forum to decide, as i said i know of several forum names you use that are unknown to all but those with specific subject knowledge.

That aside i have taken the opportunity to put a sticky up explaining who the room titles refer to. A positive thing regardless.

I am not going to get into a debate about where the name comes from and who used, i am sure that will go no where. The simple fact is it is a factual name he was known by and one that we use under the same pretext.

I think this topic has gone well enough off course and serving no further purpose. If you have any further comments to make, PM me seperately.

regards
mathew

P.S: I will also refer all those applicable to the Code of Conduct which can be seen at the head of every forum.

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Re: Who is Killer Clive ..

Post by Cardinal Biggles » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:36 am

I am finding all this quite invigorating..

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